Wednesday, June 10, 2009

What If He Earns Less Than You? + Asian Men/BW + More Links

(1) Below are excerpts from a post on Evia’s blog (blog name: Black Female Interracial Marriage Ezine).
She is writing about practicalities of interracial dating, tuning out the destructive words of others and also about being open to experiencing life abroad.

AA women--remember that you don't need EVERY man to desire you or to be
interested in you in order for you to vet and select a loving and loveable
Quality mate. You just need ENOUGH of them to be interested. That's all it
takes. Enough.

Life is mostly a mental experience. If you allow anyone to poison you
and take over your mind, they've got you paralyzed and right where they
want you. [Here, Evia is referring to those who are hostile to bw dating interracially who tell bw that non-black men do not want them. Some non-black men are interested in bw and some aren’t. Focus your thinking on those who are.] So they will continue to try to do that. They're trying to CONTROL your mind! Ignore them and keep moving toward your joy. What do you have to lose?
And for those women writing to me, remember that the world is a
global village. I keep saying that because I live in the global village; I
don't live in a box. If I weren't getting what I needed here, I'd be gone in a
few months. My passport is always ready and I always have travelling

You've got to make a DECISION to get out there take some CAUTIOUS
risks. If not, what are your other options or alternatives? The worst that
could happen out there is that you won't find Mr. Right, but you're not finding
him at home in your comfort zone ANYWAY. Folks keep trying to keep y'all at home
AS IF they have some Mr. Rights there for you. LOL! Well, just where are
these "Mr. Rights? " Make these folks produce these Mr. Rights or tell them to
shut up! At this point, I don't see why y'all are sticking close to home. What's
at home aside from the "hookups?" Is that what you call a life? Continuous

Ten years from now, you'll wish you had done something different. I
certainly know more than enough miserable, unhealthy women of all stripes
who are 40+.

You can find the rest of her post at this link (as with any resource I reference on this blog, if you find something you don’t agree with, don’t throw out the baby with the bath water):

(2) Some Black Women and Bad Attitudes
Here is an excerpt from a post titled “Debunking BW Stereotypes” on the blog Interracial Love and Spice by Sara (the blog author is a black woman):

The angry black woman stereotype is especially damaging because it takes on almost male characteristics. And in response ppl engaging in this type of behavior are usually treated in a very harsh manner consistent with the way one would treat an enraged male. I got confirmation of this, one summer when I enrolled my daughter in a summer program, and at the last minute the program decided to fill the left over slots with low income kids. They were putting on a play, and my daughter got the part of Rosa Parks that another little girl desperately wanted. The little girl sat screaming and crying and refusing to participate or stop screaming. Finally in desperation, the program called her mother and asked her to come for the child...The counselor was knocked over a chair [by the child's black mother] and grabbed by the neck, and literally choked to death before the other counselors could pull the woman off! The woman then let loose with a strings of profanity and mentioned (by name) all the body parts they could suck! She did not care how she made all bw look. She did not care that her child was now excluded from the program. She didn't even seem to care that the police were called, until they bodily forced her to the ground. This type of behavior is an exercise in stupidity. It reinforces antiquated stereotypes and beliefs and does great harm to us all. The poor counselor had done nothing to this woman's child, yet she came in like a raging bull and attacked her.
(Text in blue was added by G.T.)

(3) Reflections of a Former Attitude Queen
I also have a blog post on what I did to work on my bad attitude. The post is titled “Reflections of a Former Attitude Queen – Emotional Healing for Black Women” and you can find it here:

(4) Emotional Healing for Black Women
I have another post for black women who do not have difficult personalities, but have grief, anger or bitterness in their hearts. The post is titled “Emotional Healing for Black Women” and you can find it here:

(5) White Guy Loving His Black Lady (Fiancee)
Here is a blog on relationships that is authored by a white guy who is engaged to a black woman. It is obvious how much he treasures his lady:

(6) What If He Earns Less Than You?
Should a woman who is a college-educated architect making $80K/yr pass over a guy who is a college-educated banker making $60K/yr solely because he makes less money? (Please first read item # 6 of my post titled “Miscellaneous Advice For Black Women Interested in Dating Interracially” where I wrote about whether a woman with a college degree should date a guy who doesn’t have one. In the post, I also wrote that if you don’t like a man’s current job, take into consideration his vision for his future career and the concrete steps he’s taking to achieve the vision.)

I’ll go back to the original question. No, I don’t think a woman in this situation should turn down the guy only because he doesn’t make as much as she does. Women of various races will tell you it is not that easy to find a quality guy who you’re compatible with who is also ready to settle down and marry. Why then erect more roadblocks for yourself by insisting that the man you date must make at least as much as you do? If the income disparity between the two people is only something like $20,000, as in this case, there’s not that much to make a fuss about. Relationships with this type and degree of income disparity are becoming so commonplace now; as a result, there is way less pressure on the guy than there used to be in the past if the woman earned more. Your primary focus when screening a man should be on determining whether the two of you have compatible personalities, values/religious beliefs and educations/intellectual pursuits. When considering a man’s career, focus on whether his work ethic, level of ambition and drive are compatible with yours.

I know that one cannot totally ignore the guy’s finances because there will be a household to maintain after you marry, and it will probably eventually include kids, who we know are expensive to raise. If the guy’s income level (or income level in the future career he’s planning for) meets a reasonable threshold, don’t turn him down because he makes less money than you. The threshold would need to be one that requires he can make a consistent, meaningful contribution to the financial obligations in the household. Notice, I’m using terms like “reasonable threshold” and “meaningful contribution”—these terms mean different things to different people. Be flexible and pragmatic, but not foolhardy when determining what these terms mean for you.

Also recognize that, especially in harsh economic times, you may have a period where your reasonable threshold is really put to the test, and your guy’s contributions may be neither meaningful nor consistent. Remember, there’s typically going to be a “for better and for worse” section of your marriage vows. If one of your must-have requirements for a man is that he earns at least as much as you do, suppose he’s laid off after you get married and the replacement job brings in less money than yours, then what? He will then no longer meet your must-have requirements, so are you going to start disrespecting him? Are you going to divorce him? When it comes to as man’s career, it is wiser to put the emphasis on the attributes that cannot or are unlikely to change for the worse (his drive, ambition, work ethic, education) instead of the guy’s finances, which can. Men, like all of us, want to feel truly valued in a marriage. They want to know that their wives will love and stand by them even if their income level takes a huge dive.

When I write about compatibility, please keep in mind that compatibility does not necessarily translate into equality. If, for example, a woman is a medical doctor and the guy in question has a bachelor’s degree in economics, there is a high likelihood of intellectual compatibility between them though she has four more years of education than he does.

How about if the disparity in income is huge? What if, for example, you are a woman who is a doctor earning $190K and the guy is a teacher earning $32K, should you decline his advances just because of his income? I can empathize with the typical apprehension women in your situation have about whether the man may feel insecure in the relationship or about whether he’s interested in your money only. I empathize, (and I don’t mean any of this to come across as catty), but let’s be realistic here. The guys who earn your kind of money are generally also open to dating and marrying women who earn less than they do. Since these men aren’t limiting themselves, there is a smaller pool of them available to the women at their income level. If they aren’t restricting themselves as much as you do, you’re just making life harder for yourself if you choose to only date men at your income level. Add to this the fact that by the time you get to the age where you’ve finished all your medical training and are earning the huge income, most of the guys earning what you do are already taken.

You need to be flexible with respect to how much a man makes. How flexible you should be, I won’t comment on. Some women earning $190K may decide that they will be flexible to the point of being open to college-educated guys who earn $60K or more; some other women earning the same amount may say they will be more flexible and be willing to date college-educated guys who make less than $60K too. I won’t weigh in on whether I think one approach is superior to the other. I’ll just say you should be flexible. By the way, I know of 3 women who are doctors married to engineers even though doctors typically make way more than engineers.

As far as your concerns about guys who could be gold diggers, reduce the risk by screening out men who have a poor work ethic, lack integrity and live beyond their means. I know all women should do this, but it is doubly important in your case. A man who is a hard worker, is honest and has prudent spending habits is less likely to be interested in you for your money. As you evaluate his character, remember that the little things add up. A few sample questions to ask yourself: Does he buy boot-legged CDs and DVDs? Does he cheat on his taxes? Does he get on the NYC subway without paying? No one is perfect, so I’m not saying you should head for the hills as soon as he does anything lacking integrity, but if you point it out, does he justify his behavior and keep doing it?

If you’re worried about guys eventually feeling insecure in a relationship with you if you earn a ton more than they do, look for a guy who is extremely comfortable in his own skin; that should reduce some of the risk. Also, perhaps after the two of you have been dating a couple of months, have a heart-to-heart discussion with the man about whether he thinks the income disparity will be an issue in the long-run. Pay attention to not just what he says, but his body language too. I suggest having the discussion after 2 months because the discussion may be somewhat awkward and you need to have known each other long enough so that you guys can bounce back from the awkwardness.

Men crave respect even more than most women realize, so make sure you’re not disrespectful to your man. I know, I know, women require respect too, so it is a two-way street. However, there may even be some things that you do that you don’t realize are disrespectful to your guy--like a certain type of teasing in public. Read the book “For Men Only: The Inner Lives of Men” by Shaunti Feldhahn. As with any resource I reference on this blog, if you find anything on there you disagree with, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Also see item # 14 in my post titled “More For Single Black Christian Women” where I write about decision-making between spouses.

You may think that I don’t have as much concern when the college-educated woman earns less than her college-educated man as I do when a college-educated woman is with a non-college-educated man; I know it is possible both situations can lead to the man being insecure in the long-run. My rationale is that compatibility of education/intellectual pursuits is more important in an intimate relationship than whether the guy makes as much money as the wife. Most of your time interacting with your husband is going to be spent talking. If your mindsets are worlds apart, there is less probability that you will have a lasting, deep connection than an intellectually- matched couple (all other things being equal). A bw should be able to debates issues freely with her husband and try to learn more about the world without fear that she will be labeled an uppity negro or “bougie.” Please re-read item # 6 of my post titled “Miscellaneous Advice For Black Women Interested in Dating Interracially.” In that post, I make it clear that I do believe that there are some men without a formal higher education who have great intellectual curiosity, so I know that there are exceptions to what I’m writing.

If your guy makes less money than you, but you have compatibility of education/intellectual pursuits PLUS the guy has drive, a strong work ethic and is ambitious, he will take care of business. He will work hard at his job (and at times, perhaps a second job) to make sure he is making a meaningful contribution to the household finances; you won’t feel used like some sort of beast of burden that's having to carry the whole household. (I’ve written about the importance of compatibility in other key areas like values/religious beliefs, so clearly you would be screening out guys who would seek to take care of business illegally.) For example, I read an article a while ago about a man who was a college grad that worked for a non-profit organization. He and his wife wanted to buy their first property, so he got a 2nd job for a few years so they could afford it. Most of us know that teachers do this sort of thing all the time.

Ideally, one would prefer to have educational/intellectual compatibility with a man as well as similar income levels, but we do not live in an ideal world, so make lemonade out of lemons. If you meet a guy you’re compatible with on all levels and he makes as much as you do, great; go ahead and do your thing, girl. If you’re compatible on all levels, but he makes less money, then work with what you’ve got-there are a lot of happily-married women who’ve taken this route. Also remember that sometimes he’ll only be making less money than you for a relatively short period of time because he’s planning to launch a business or further his education/change his job or career.

(7) Asian Men / Black Women Relationships
There are men that behave like dirt bags in every race, so it is important to screen guys. Below are 3 black women’s experiences with dating Asian men that I found online. One has a bad report to give and the other two have good reports to give. After reading the bad report, you may be tempted to say you will steer clear of all Asian men. That would be too harsh a response. Instead, just proceed with caution in any dating relationship, regardless of the man’s race. SCREEN, SCREEN, SCREEN guys.

One quality to look for in a guy is independent-thinking. If you perceive the guy to be someone who jumps on the bandwagon on various life issues, you have to ask yourself whether he is going to be willing to stand up to his family if they are against him marrying you. Even if his family is okay with your relationship, won’t someone with a history of being spineless eventually buckle under the pressure when certain segments in society disapprove of your relationship? Remember that sometimes folks express this disapproval with threats of violence or by trying to damage a person’s career. Do you really want someone who has no backbone to be the father of your children one day and possibly pass on that unappealing trait? If you perceive that a man OF ANY RACE doesn’t have the courage of his convictions, just keep it moving. By the way, a person can be shy and still have a quiet strength; also, a person can be loud and obnoxious and still not be an independent thinker.

Black Woman # 1’s Experience:
The love of my life just happens to be a Korean male.Did I seek him a
band-aid for my wounds from Black men? no.Do I hate myself, and secretly
wish I were of another race? no.Did I just give up and say "to hell with it,
I'll take whatever comes along." no.I simply fell in love with his fear of
God first...character second...and everything else fell into place.Am I
saying he's better than the Black man, or for that matter, any other race?
no.I'm simply saying, God blessed me to find true love where I would've
never dreamed of looking before. And they that.

Black Woman # 2’s Experience:
I dated an Asian man for 2 years from Myanmar, and the entire time he could not make up his mind if he wanted to disappoint his friends and family by going against them ( by taking our relationship further w/marriage,children etc ) He was afraid they just wouldn't accept it. He was more into Greek/and Italian women when he left for Greece when he got a good job as a really good chef, but he complained they were being snobby etc...So he left for Berlin and persued German women etc. So in a
nutshell, I saw that he was obviously feeling his friends and everyone would be more accepting of him pairing up with a woman of caucasian ancestry.

I dated a Thai man from Los Angeles. He was nice, handsome and was a gentleman. Things between us went very well, until he started edgey about getting serious...and also when he found out that I am a black woman. He assumed I was a Latina or some other race, but I was very clear to him when we discussed my family history that I am African American it seemed to bother him alot. He started saying that he was unsure about commitment...and then said that black women are unfeminine that other races of women. He told me that I was not unfeminine, but thats how he
felt about most black women. Then he made some sort of confession about how his statement is what others thought, so thats why he felt that way. It was as if he was afraid of what others would think of him.

I dated another Asian man many years later, he was really nice, educated and
really kind. Everything was great with him, he asked me to be his girlfriend
and to take things more seriously. I agreed, I really was intrigued by him.
A year later he told me he was interested in marriage. Then he started saying he needed to wait until we both finished college. Well, we both graduated and he then
asked me if I'd move in with him and hold off on marriage for another 3 years so
that he could travel around the world.

I am not against Asian men and Black women relationships, there are some out
there that work out. I had always thought that was the type of relationship
for me, because I had always been attracted to Asian men. But I have noticed
online alot of Asian men on forums bashing black well as personally seeing this sort of thing. Many will wonder dumb things like "What would our kids look
like" things like that...and it shouldn't really matter what the kids will look like. Its a shame.I posted before on here and people thought I was talking against AM/BW relationships but that is not the case at all. I just don't think AM/BW relationships are ever going to be that easy unless both parties learn to have a better respect
and understanding of each other...instead of going on stupid negative stereotypes,
and being too worried about family and friends view on the matter.

Black Woman # 3’s Experience:

Read Lorraine’s Feb 27, 2009 interview with Ami, a black woman married to a Chinese man named Yuan at: By the way, Lorraine’s interviews are featured on Evia’s blog, “Black Female Interracial Marriage Ezine,” in the section named “Lorraine’s Corner.”

(8) The Next Generation & Appreciation of Black Beauty
You and your husband/child’s father should train your daughters to appreciate their beauty and also train your sons to appreciate the beauty of black girls/women. (If you are single and your child’s father is not actively involved in your kid's upbringing, then enlist someone else to act as a father-figure for your child. If you can’t find a father-figure for your child, then it is still better that s/he learns good lessons about black beauty from you than that they get no good lessons at all.) You and your husband/child’s father should affirm your daughter’s beauty by telling her she is pretty on a regular basis. When either of you see a cute black girl/woman or a picture of one, make a statement about how attractive she is and make sure your son /daughter hears you. Tell them not to unthinkingly accept the standards of beauty of the mainstream society. Don’t wait until your kids are teenagers to start because by then the warped mentality about black beauty that is prevalent in our youth today may already be too engrained. Watch the DVD, “The Souls of Black Girls” for more on how black girls view themselves negatively (see "Misc Links" section of this blog).

9) Seminar Announcement: The Black Girl’s Guide to Interracial Dating

Locations: New York, Atlanta, Chicago, DC, Philly, Oakland, Detroit and Los Angeles and organized a seminar on interracial dating for bw in Los Angeles on Aug 2, 2009 and it was a resounding success. They plan to hold future seminars on this topic soon in New York, Atlanta, Chicago, DC, Philly, Oakland and Detroit. When you attend the seminar, you will be given a copy of the Black Girl’s Guide to Interracial Dating. If you can’t attend one of the seminars, contact the organizers to see if you can purchase a DVD or CD of the event. One of the hosts of the event was Fleace Weaver of
Seminar Website:

Here is a National Public Radio (NPR) piece on this seminar by journalist Jenee D:

Great job on the radio piece, Jenee!

Jenee has a blog post about the seminar and she will be adding interviews from the seminar that didn’t make it into the final story. Here’s a link to her blog post: .

Check out my other posts:

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